Self-Awareness vs. Prescriptive Safety with Dr. Leslie Anway

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Resilient Schools Podcast. I'm your host, Jethro Jones, and uh, you can find me on all the social networks at Jethro Jones, and you should also check out the BE Podcast Network New. website@bepodcastnetwork.com. And, uh, we love being part of the B podcast network. They're awesome. Of course, it's my network, so I get to say that and I think that's the case.

So, uh, good stuff. We're talking about some great stuff. Today, we have a guest named Dr. Lust Anway. She's the Director of Resilient Schools for the Pima County School Superintendent's Office. And her biggest focus over the last several years has been on assisting with the creation of educational systems that streamline and integrate proactive initiative work to create foundationally safe learning spaces that foster belonging and connection and prioritize educator wellness.

She's a national presenter who trains and consults with practitioner schools and districts around the state, [00:01:00] but she remains an educator at heart with over 25 years of direct experience in the schools as both a teacher and a school psychologist. She's the co-founder of Flourish Learning Group, LLC and Prism, and she participates on multiple state national committees and Leslie adores being a lifelong learner who learns on daily basis from the hardworking humans and humans and kindred spirits she interacts with, as well as from her three spirited grandchildren.

Uh, you don't look old enough to have grandchildren. So, uh, you're, you're doing something great there. Um, you all can't see, uh, Leslie, but, uh, but I thought you were much younger than you are, so congratulations on that. Um, alright, so let's start talking about this idea of safety. I've been on a bit of a ramp lately around safety and how we put way too much emphasis on it and, um, and how, uh.

Safety is is a frustrating topic for me because [00:02:00] schools say that safety is our priority, and I don't think that should be the case. I think that safety is the cost of doing business, and that if you can't keep kids safe, then why are you even here? But safe means many different things. So tell me your perspective on what that means.

Yes. So, um, and I appreciate your perspective on it, um, as well, and I think we need all these variety of perspectives. Because, um, what I see that often happens in school systems is that somebody, administration district level, somebody says, here's how we can make our school safe. This is what it looks like, and so here's what you are going to do to make the school safe.

It's so, it, it's a prescription for safety and, um, and we don't ask. We don't ask our kids, we don't ask the students, we don't ask our staff what [00:03:00] necessarily would make you feel safe. And so, um, for me, um, because I look at everything through a, through a neuroscience lens, what really lies at the heart of safety is self-awareness and self-management.

And it's that the personal. The personal sense of safety that you arrive at the building with, that you carry in with you, that you're gonna, that you're gonna hopefully, um, keep throughout your, your school

Yeah, that's, that's really interesting and I appreciate that idea of self-awareness and self-management. What does that look like and how is that different than safety? Also, you talked about safety being a prescription where somebody else determines what safety means, and I think I. That is one of my new favorite things because that's what, what my problem is, is that we say we're making our school safe, but that.

In other contexts, what you're actually doing is making it less safe for me to take [00:04:00] risks and be my own person and develop who I am, uh, because I'm not allowed to do these certain things and I don't get to develop that aspect of myself. So let's talk a little bit about self-awareness and self-management.

What does, what does that look like and how does that play into this? And granted, we're gonna be talking about adults and kids in a school setting, so, so it, it's different for those two groups as well, isn't it?

It absolutely is different and, but, but here's the most important thing. I think that, um, we never asked the question. We never asked the question. What makes you feel safe? And so it is gathering that information because what you, what makes you feel safe in any kind of setting, whether it's school or anywhere, is gonna be totally different than what makes me feel safe and is gonna be different from, um, you know, my friend over here who has experienced. This level of trauma in this way maybe comes from a [00:05:00] different country, culturally is different. Certainly that that sense of safety is gonna be a lot different. And so we can't, we cannot generally prescribe this, this safety to all of us. So when we kind of dial it back and look at, um, this self-awareness piece. I think we're looking at several components here. I think self-awareness comes down to, um, presence and how present are we, how present are we able to be? Because as adults, um, and as our kids are learning too, we live a lot of our lives on autopilot. And so being able to kind of stop the autopilot and really engage. That, um, is a component of, of self-awareness. Um, I think knowing really who you are as a person, what you stand for, your values, your identity, those, those [00:06:00] pieces, um, also are really, are really critical. And those are things that, that I work with, um, with some of our adults because, um. Some of our adults are not sure. You know what I, and I, I can speak for myself and say that, you know, I think I was probably in my forties before I even started to ponder some of these, some of these questions of, you know, what, what do I, in my, in my core, what do I stand for? And really drilling down in, in those, some of those self-awareness pieces.

Well, and this is a really interesting thing also because I have, I have a story to share about this identity piece and my, my other problem with identity is that we boil it down to these parts of our identity that certainly do matter. But they are not, they are a part of our identity, and I'm talking mostly about racial identity and sexual identity, [00:07:00] and we make those so prominent and so important that they outweigh everything else.

When I. There's so much more to us than the color of our skin and who we love. And, and if we, if we started there, we'd be in a much better place. I believe. So the way that this story unfolds is that I was at a, um, uh, an open house for students deciding whether or not they wanted to come to this option school.

And there was a girl there who was, uh, visibly. Uncomfortable and scared and started crying in the middle of this presentation and it being a curious person, I wanted to go see what was going on. And, uh, after several conversations, I found out that this girl was terrified because everybody was announcing.

Their pronouns as they were introducing themselves, the [00:08:00] students were, which, you know, going back to your prescription for safety, that we're gonna be accepting of everyone. Well, the problem is, is that nobody did not use their pronouns. Several of them used pronouns of opposite genders. Several of them used plural pronouns, and this poor girl was very nervous that she was going to have to.

Uh, introduce herself and state her pronouns while she was unsure of what was going on. So there was nobody there saying, I'm not going to share my pronouns, and nobody there saying It's okay to not share your pronouns. The the implied situation was you have to share your pronouns and based on the people who are here, if you are not something.

Non normal then you are the weird one. And, and so this girl who was struggling with her own gender identity at the time and fearing that she would either have [00:09:00] to lie or come out to her parents who were there also, or, or say something that she didn't feel was true to herself, put her in this really difficult situation and.

I just felt such empathy for this girl who was being forced into this situation that she didn't understand and shouldn't have had to make that decision yet anyway. And yet in the name of safety, quote unquote, um, it, it put her in this really uncomfortable thing and this school. It could have been a really great experience for her, but she completely decided against it because of how she felt in that moment.

So in an effort to be safe, she then felt like she was incredibly unsafe. And this goes back to your idea of, I. Understanding our values, our identity, and what makes us feel safe. And that was not the thing that made her feel [00:10:00] safe. And all it would've taken was one person to just say, hi, my name is John, or my name is Karen, and that's it.

And then she would've thought, okay, it's okay for me to not identify my pronouns here and, and be my own person. But that was not the message that was communicated, uh, by how they were acting. What are your, what are your thoughts or comments on that?

Yeah, I. I, I agree with that. Um, and again, I think it, it come, it boils down to getting to know, you know, getting to know our individual students, getting to know our individual staff members. And when we do know that, we then know the things that are going to make them feel, you know, comfortable or, or excluded or, um, but I also think that we have really, um, we've really started to focus a lot in our country on. On these polarizing things that make us different, you know, rather than [00:11:00] as a human race, what are our commonalities? And so I think that as a human race, we, we have so many commonalities. And so I think that that too is something, as we talk about self-awareness as we talk about social awareness, um, I think those are, those are pieces that we can have really good, meaningful discussions about. Um. And, and you know, if we take the time to do that.

Yeah. So how do you, how do you suggest we have those discussions? What's your advice to people who are like, we wanna do something better than what we've been doing, and regardless of what that looked like before, what are, what are some pieces of advice you'd give them to have those discussions?

Well, that's actually where, um, the Prism

framework that that, um, I, um, that I developed. Um, it kind of e evolved because, um, I was seeing a lot of work in schools that was being [00:12:00] done in very siloed ways in, um, we've gotta have a curriculum for, um, SEL. And we've gotta have a curriculum for restorative practices.

We've gotta have a curriculum for PBIS for trauma responsive practices. And um, so it was all these little siloed efforts and a lot of times they were checklists. They were real surface level. Um, so rather than, you know, good intentions, but rather than anything meaningful, really getting done, we had this group in charge of this, this group in charge of this, this group, in charge of this, and nothing really happening. Um, and sometimes that cross purposes with each other too. Um, and so the prism, um, framework came about with how can we streamline all of this? So how can we streamline, we've got all these things. And really ideally, they should not be a half an hour program on Monday. Because if we're talking about really good practices, [00:13:00] things like social emotional skill building, we're talking about trauma responsive practice, we should be embedded in every single thing that we do. And so let's take all of these things, let's embed 'em in what we do. And, um, I think, you know, starting at the, your day with some type of a circle meeting. You can embed a, a whole ton of things in that you can embed social emotional skill development. You can embed some proactive restorative practices and you can have those kind of meaningful discussions around. Self-awareness around self-management and, um, really get some good interactions. You can do it with staff and you can do it with students as well. You know, what, what works for you in this situation when this happens? What and, and how does this make you feel uncomfortable Or how, you know, how, um, in this situation. How could I do that better? You know, how could I respond to you in a better way? And so you really create the meaningful dialogue and [00:14:00] you really hit all of these different proactive initiatives that you're trying to cover with all these curriculum, um, in just a really streamlined way.

Yeah. So let's talk about what that looks like in a, in a real case. Uh, when would you bring this up? How would you integrate this into a, into a school? And what would that, what would that look like? And PRISM stands for Proactive restorative Integrated Systems Model, and, um.

it's.

Yes. And I've got a link to your, to your diagram on your website about it so that people can, can check it out and understand, uh, and learn more about it so they, they have access to it.

Um, and, and, and so talk about what that would look like, uh, if you were working on this with a specific, uh, school or district,

So we always start with the adults first, always.

So we like to spend about. Uh, because I've done it wrong. [00:15:00] 'cause I've done it backwards. I've done it the other way first, and I've, and I, and then, and then gone, oh crap. I, I, that was, uh, you know, I jumped right in with the kids and then we got all these adults who are going, um, but I don't really even understand what we're doing.

And I don't, and I really don't have buy-in to what we're doing. Um. But, and the other thing is that we need to be building up the social, emotional, um, skills of our adults. Um, this is a time, especially now where, um, that needs to happen. And so yeah, we like to start with the adults and it, that's what it's all about, is building those social emotional skills for the

Yeah. And, and if I can just add there, it's, it's one thing to. Take something that you learn from a book or a training or a presentation or whatever and start implementing it. But it's a different thing to take something that you have your own experience with and start applying it to your classroom [00:16:00] as the adult.

And, and this is something where, uh, where. When I've done these trauma type trainings in the past, you know, if the, if the school leadership is not in the room and I'm just talking to the teachers,

uh, we got a big problem because they have to understand it as well. And there are other times where the school leadership doesn't need to be in the room.

Like, let's say, for example, on some specific training on a curricular piece. The school principal really doesn't need to be an expert in how to deliver that, uh, that piece of curriculum. But the principal should be an expert in understanding this type of an approach that is talking about self-awareness and supporting people in their self, self-management, because.

They, like you said, this needs to be done all throughout the school in every aspect of what you're doing. If a kid's on a sports team and [00:17:00] they fail, then that's a great opportunity. If a kid, uh, wins, gets the best score in the classroom on a test, they still apply to that situation of how do you win and lose gracefully regardless of the stakes or the the level or anything like that.

Yeah. And um. And I absolutely believe that, yeah, it should be every single employee on a campus. You know, I mean, bus drivers and, and you know, lunchroom staff and Ev and i, we have done that with, with, with the entire staff. Um, because that, that self-awareness piece, the, the social awareness, um, building all that, but the, um, ability then to model it. For kids to apply it in situations with kids, um, is just increased, you know, [00:18:00] exponentially when, um, so when we spend a year with just the adults working on this, interacting with the adults on how can we build these, how can we build these things? So we eventually work up to things like, you know, growth mindset and, and, and that type of thing.

But, um. Then that they are able to en mesh this. And, and the other piece of it is that it's ongoing sessions. So we work with them ongoing sessions for a year. Because you're right, I, I think in education we're really good about doing spray and pray. Um, PDs really good at that, you know. We, we need to check this box and say that we're trauma informed.

And so, um, we're gonna bring in so and so and they're gonna do an hour training and boom, we're trauma informed. We can check that box and nobody remembers it. Six months down the road, maybe one or two people are actually implementing those things. Um, so [00:19:00] we say, Nope, we wanna meet with you. Our deal is every two weeks for an hour, every two weeks for an hour, we're gonna continue microdosing, microdosing, these things. How can you I implement them? What's happening? How are you applying them to yourself? And then year two, we say, okay, you feel pretty good about some of these, these, these skills in your own self and modeling them. Now, how can we start to um, really embed them in your daily, whatever the content. Whatever area you are in the

Yeah. And, and so then it becomes, uh, because everybody's experiencing it as the adults, they can then transfer this to their interactions with students in whatever facet they're, they're in with them. And so if they're a coach or a teacher or the custodian seeing somebody in the hallway, all of these interactions can then.

Have the basis in this type of an approach. And so the, the [00:20:00] focus then becomes, uh, talking about teaching and focusing on the. Skills that people need for success long term rather than, you know, just acing a test, for example, or completing a homework assignment. That it's really about this longer term game that we're playing than, than just, you know, getting kids through the curriculum as it were.

Yeah. And, and not only is it really what they are, life skills, you know, they're, they are and we know that our. Employers are, um, looking more for those type of skills, um, than the actual academic content. Um, and right now a lot of our kids are lacking in those. And so, um, but also we know too, and the research shows that when we beef up those skills, academics improve. And that's, that's the [00:21:00] neuroscience too, is, you know, when we're, when we are self-awareness and self-management live in the, in the brainstem. So when we're, when we're covering that area of the brain, then we can move up into the limbic system and have those relationships, connections, you know, can beef up. And then, you know, there's greater access to the cortex for learning and for. For retention of material. Um, and, and that has, um, proven out with, with some of the work that we've done as well.

Well, and I think it's important to note here, you don't have to be a neuroscientist or a brain specialist to understand this, and, and the way that I like to explain this is. Is everything that happens, you're, you're going to respond to first with your natural instincts. And so if you are constantly in a state of being anxious, nervous, scared, worried.

Bored, whatever. You're going to react with [00:22:00] that first, and that's everything going through the brainstem. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I'm not a brain scientist, but this is, this is just what I what I understand then if that brainstem is like, this is fine, you can keep going. You don't need to run away from this, or you don't need to hide or you don't need to fight this.

Then it goes up to your limbic system, and then if everything checks out there, then it goes up to the cortex where you can do the deep, high level thinking that needs to happen. So nothing starts at the the cortex and then goes down to the brainstem. It all goes through the brainstem first, and everything has to pass through that.

If it passes through there and it passes the fight or flight check, then it can move on, and then you can get into the deep work that you need to do to be a successful learner and a successful human being. Did, did I get any of that wrong or anything you want to correct?

No, I, I think that, I think that's a great, I think that's a great explanation of it. We, and, and you know, I think in our, we know that in our, in our classrooms [00:23:00] we have, um, many kids who are living in their brainstem. I. And they're living in that sympathetic state, you know, the sympathetic nervous state, and they're kind of living in that state of, of, of low level toxic stress. And because they're not, they don't have the capacity or the ability to regulate their nervous system. So whether that is in the school or whether that's when they leave and go home, when they leave and go home, they go into more. More chaos. And so they are, they're living in the brainstem area and don't know how to. Progress to the limbic. And so that's where in the schools we can provide some of those regulation spaces, some of those regulation activities. And those can be very, you know, short, I mean, those can be three to five minutes. We can do those tier one, we can do those as a whole class. And let's just do something for, for three to five minutes. [00:24:00] Um, so that. All these people, all these kids who are coming in with various, from various different, um, home circumstances in various different levels of, of brain regulation, um, can all regulate together at the same time,

which kind of helps level the playing field from the get go. When you do that.

Yeah. Well, and the thing is, is that when you, when you help people be self-aware, then they take the opportunity to control themselves rather than. Waiting for the teacher to say, okay, now we're all going to get on the same page. They say, you know what, I'm feeling a little bit off and you know, my, my wife and my daughter had a great example of this yesterday.

My daughter just had a rough day at school and my wife was like, just come home and take a bath and like just chill. Like, watch Gilmore Girls, you'll be fine. And what that was is her giving [00:25:00] my daughter permission to self-regulate and saying, we're not gonna come down on you, or like, get mad at you. Like you just take care of you.

And what was so cool about this situation was that it was totally natural. It didn't need to be forced. It, it was. Somebody recognizing somebody else was struggling and saying, let me help you out here. And, and it was really, it was awesome to see because that's exactly what needed to happen. And like my daughter didn't need permission to take a bath.

She could have just done it on her own. But sometimes we feel these external pressures and my wife saying that was a way of her being kind and saying, Hey, I can tell you need this. Go ahead and do it. And. All will be well. And sure enough she did it and felt better afterward and was in a much better mood.

And, you know, the, that was just like a little thing that, um, that may not happen in every home, [00:26:00] may not happen at school, may not happen, you know, everywhere you want it to. But because my wife is so self-aware herself and knows when she's getting grumpy and upset, she's like, oh, this is something that I do.

And you know, my daughter didn't have to do the exact same thing that my wife does, but. Having someone else to say, this is an okay thing to do and give you a chance to try, that really does matter, and that's why it's so important. Going back to what you said about the adults, starting with them because then they can, they can share that as well.

What would you add

Yeah. Um, yeah, I think that that's, um. Perfect. And I think that's beautiful that you're, you know, your, your wife is self-aware and that she would, you know, your daughter has that space to do that. Yeah. I agree that, that many of our kids don't, don't have parents who have that same level of, of awareness. Um, and so if they have not [00:27:00] been taught themselves. That awareness. And that's where I do think we can come in, um, and, and help to teach that in the schools. Um, if they don't have that level of awareness, one they can't even identify, they can't identify that I am actually dysregulating, you know, it just, it comes out as, as so many other things as anger and aggression and, and, and without a, without an awareness, um, that my brain is dysregulated. But they don't, they don't have the tools then to regulate when they become dysregulated or the space to do that in, because their home may not, may not be a, a place where they can do any of that, you know? So, um, yeah. I think that we can, we can do a really good job in, in the schools of starting with our, with our adults, who can then share that with, with students, starting with the awareness.

So let's talk a little bit about, [00:28:00] uh, bringing this to families. And you, you hinted that maybe some families don't have this and. Every family has a way to deal with stress, and we may approve of some of those things, and we may not approve of some of those things as an institution. And we may feel differently as a parent ourselves and say, you know, I get it.

And so, so how do you in a way that respects parents and their, uh, their. Their own control over their own life and their own self-awareness and their own self-management. What's a way that you help parents in your community understand these things as well? Because like we said, if, if the kids know how to do it, but the parents don't, um, then that may be fine for the kids, but the, then the whole family suffers as well.

So what's your advice for, for supporting families in this?

Yeah, because it's still, um. [00:29:00] I, and I think it's fantastic to give the, the kids the tools, you know, 'cause they can really take those wherever they go. But there still may be an envi in an environment that's really chaotic or that's really dysregulating. Um, so I just think being able to provide, um, opportunities, um, educational opportunities for families, um, who are interested in learning more, um, as much as we can.

I think that that's, um. And, and I have worked with families who have been interested and who have come and, and said, you know what, how can we partner? And so I think as much as we can partner with, with our, with our caregivers and families to say, here's what we're working on. We're working on self-awareness.

We're on self-management, we're on social awareness, we're working on relationship building and skills. We would love to partner with you. And so what that, what might that look like, um, for you and in your home and [00:30:00] what might, um, some regulation tools look like? For you in your home and, and what are you already doing? Because certainly that, that's a right, that's a big piece of it too because what are you already doing and um, how might we build on maybe something you're already doing? Because sometimes, you know, we, in schools, we don't always take that

into account.

Well, and I'm really glad you said that last piece because that's one of the major areas of concern that I've seen is that schools think because we are educated, because we have degrees, we know the right answer, and I. That is not necessarily the truth. And, and there have been many instances in, in my life with my own kids where they have had struggles and we've got a pretty good home life.

Two well-educated parents, a dad who pays attention and does this kind of stuff and coaches people and teaches them how to do it. So like we're certainly not [00:31:00] perfect, but we got a lot of things going for us. And sometimes in our situation, the. Uh, the schools have assumed that we don't know what we're doing or made it seem like we, we don't have the tools or the skills that we need, and especially as we have, um, we, we live in Spokane, Washington.

Now, we moved here about four years ago, and because I'm not in the school system here, uh, the, the, the way that. I've seen how schools treat regular parents, and I've never noticed it before because I've always been in the school system and I've been able to translate things, uh, for my wife and, and kids.

But now I'm like, oh, this is how they talk to parents all the time and, and I can see how sometimes it's very condescending and that question of, what are you doing already? Is rarely asked. And you know, even in IEP meetings, that's, that's not often asked about, what are you doing already to help your, help [00:32:00] your kid be successful?

So I really appreciate you saying that because it's so important. Um, because parents have to live with these kids forever, right? And that, and that really matters. So, so there's a big impact there.

Yes, a hundred percent agree with that. Because, uh, because all of this, all social emotional skill building starts at home, starts at home, and it needs to be, um, uh, needs to be a partnership. Uh, you know, that, that to me, the thought that that schools would ever be, um, condescending at all to parents, you know. The people that are raising these, these children that are, you know, are attending their schools is, is, um, uh, kind of outside my, uh, you know, but I, um, I've been within the school systems for, for a long time. And so I think that's really valid and I think it's a good point to bring up because for me it is always about partnering [00:33:00] first and, um, and asking that question.

And I, I conducted IEPs as a school psychologist, and so it was always. What are you doing at home? How can we, how can we partner? How can we make you a piece of this? I think that's critical. And I think too, you know, culturally, um, many, um, you know, many families do things different and they're doing some fantastic things to, um, to regulate their kids, to bring about self-awareness.

It may not look like. What the, the norm is in the school, but it may be something fantastic and, and we can learn from that, you know, and that maybe that's something we can bring in and include in what we're doing because that may be working really fantastic for that family. And so trying, again, it's trying to force, it's trying to prescribe, like we talked about, is trying to prescribe something across the board for everybody that's not, just

not gonna work. So it's, it is the partnership [00:34:00] and the conversation.

Well, if you really wanna have your blood boil, let me, let me share a quick anecdote on this topic. had an educator say to me, uh, that there are no consequences for parents when a child fails. And I was just dumbfounded. And I was like, what do you mean? I. There's no consequences. And they're like, well, if we, if our school fails, uh, then we could get shut down by the state.

We could lose our jobs. And I was like, hold on a minute. Like, you're probably not going to lose your job. And if you do, you'll probably be able to get a job at another school, even if the state takes over your school. That's not really a consequence. That is just, you know, just like getting a new principal.

It's not that different. So, yeah, it's stressful because you feel like you're. Because you know you've failed the kids and so you, you feel badly about that. But these parents, they still have these kids who have failed. [00:35:00] In our eyes for the rest of their lives. And when they're 35 and living in their parents' basement, still they, that is a consequence and that's a very real consequence when they are estranged from each other when they, uh, when grandma is raising the grandchild.

That's a real consequence. So, so there are all these things that are real consequences for parents that you possibly being uncomfortable for a year because. Your schools under state control. That is not a consequence in the grand scheme of things. And, and that perspective, so many educators just don't understand it, and they think, you know, there's, there's no consequences or, or the parents get off, quote unquote scot free and it's like, no, the parents are the ones who are really paying the price.

And like you said, we need to partner with them rather than asking them to partner with us. We need. We need, we need to understand that they're raising their kids and we step in for a short time to help [00:36:00] with that and to help teach them things. But they're ultimately the ones who are responsible. And there's no way around that.

The only way around that is frightening to me, which concludes boarding schools in the state, taking complete control, which we don't wanna go down that path at all. So, you know, we have to recognize that parents have a lot of. A lot of influence, a lot to say, and we need to join them in their work of raising their kids to be the kind of adults they want them to be.

and we win. I mean, you know, when we have great partner, when great parents and who are our partners in the schools, that's, that's a win-win.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, uh, Leslie, this was great chatting with you. I feel like we could go on for hours, but we'll go ahead and close it here. Um, I wanna remind everybody to check out, uh, flourishing learning group.com to get more information about your Prism approach and, and connect with you any other ways you'd like people to reach out or connect with you.[00:37:00]

Um, they can, um, email me at, at my email, which is, do you want me to

just give it to

works. I.

Leslie? Okay. It's leslie dot anway@pima.gov. So I'm, I'm responsive to

Excellent. Well, uh, there's a link to that email in the show notes. You can just click it and it'll send an email to her. Um, and then the Flourishing Learning Group, LLC, uh, which is flourishing learning group.com. People can check that out. Also, Leslie, thanks so much for being part of Resilient Schools today.

This was awesome.

Thank you.

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